tv The Ed Show MSNBC February 1, 2013 8:00pm-9:00pm EST
state will have among the sharpest delegations in the entire u.s. senate. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" from new york. hillary clinton ends her run as secretary of state by nailing republicans for who they really are. i love it. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> i am very proud to have been secretary of state. >> hillary clinton gives her final farewell as secretary of state and doesn't mince parting words about the republicans refusing to face facts. karen finney and michael steele on clinton's right-wing call-out. the stock market closes over 14,000. exxon has record profits, and income inequality has never been worse. senator bernie sanders on the fight ahead. scott brown is out, and geraldo is in. >> this is a real-life horror
story, and it will give small children bad dreams. >> we've got rivera's first senate campaign commercial ahead. michelle goldberg, michael tamaski and gene robinson are here to talk about the legacy of ed koch. beer prices could rise, but not if president obama has anything to say about it. we've got the details on the next move by the department of justice on anheuser-busch. ten years ago today, the space shuttle columbia tragedy rocked the country. today a new shocking story of what nasa knew has america talking. we have the real story here tonight. good to have you with us tonight. folks, thanks for watching. a big thank you tonight for hillary clinton for finally saying what really needed to be said. today was clinton's final day as secretary of state. she begins her life as a private citizen tomorrow. and for now, she has nothing to
lose politically. so when the associated press asked clinton about the republican lawmakers who grilled her on benghazi, this was the secretary's response. "they just will not live in an evidence-based world, and that's regretle. it's regrettable for our political system and for the people who serve our government in very dangerous, difficult circumstances." amen to that. the president might not be able to call out republicans like this. democratic lawmakers certainly might not be able to do it, but hillary clinton has no fear of speaking the truth now that she is going to be a private citizen. her appearances in front of the congressional committees on benghazi, the investigation turned into a complete sham because of these lies. the most outrageous questions came from the most ridiculous sources. take conservative blogger jennifer rubin. she managed to get an absolute falsehood presented as fact by republican lawmakers. rubin reported on a deputy
secretary of state who testified about getting information from benghazi in realtime. charlene last-minute said the information came from multiple phone calls to communicate with the annex in tripoli. she ended her testimony saying the other diplomats would hang up on us and then call back. rubin decided to invent details just out of thin air. she wrote, "this was the most urgent issue of the moment in which everyone wanted to know what happened in benghazi. so why not look at the real-time video? video? there was no video. all communication was done over the phone. but rubin apparently imagined a scene from the bin laden raid and then presented her imagination as fact. this is how it starts. one completely bogus and shoddy piece of writing, which makes its way over to fox news. >> oh, and did i mention the state department was watching
this unfold in real-time? >> after catching fire over at fox news, it's just a quick jump away from the united states congress. >> at any time, did you see the initial attack on a monitor? or the president? >> congressman, there was no monitor, there was no real-time. we got surveillance videos some weeks later. that was the first time we saw any video of the attack. >> even after secretary clinton debunked this nonsense on camera in front of the committee, it made its way back to fox news the very same night. >> charlene lamb said they were watching it at the state department in realtime. >> this is not just an isolated incident, my friends. during the same hearings, clinton was asked about a crazy conspiracy involving gun ruining from benghazi. it looked like this garbage started on an extreme anti-islam website. claiming that he was coordina r
coordinatoring the gun running. this is especially attractive to guys like glenn beck. his website picked up the theory. of course they ran with it. a headline at the blaze said chris stevens may have been linked to jihadist rebels in syria. how irresponsible is that? it's really scary. and here is the scary part. glenn beck's media outfit is a trusted source of secret information by at least one republican senator. here he is. rand paul had no problem repeating this total rumor and asking secretary clinton what she knew about it. >> my question is the u.s. involved with any procuring of weapons, transfer of weapons, buying, selling, anyhow transferring weapons to turkey out of libya? >> to turkey? >> and of course the trip wouldn't be complete if the story didn't wind back up on fox news that night. >> i don't have proof of this.
no one has given me any information. i have no briefing to this. but there have been articles in the news print and in the press saying that there was some gun running going on. >> all of those crazy theories and rumors serve one purpose for the people who will not live in an evidence-based society, just like hillary clinton was talking about. they make people think that there is some larger conspiracy at play. and it goes all the way to the top, the white house. well, two can play this game. you see, you can connect the dots to make things appear any way you want. i think it's only fair to connect these dots to the republican party. they love to foster these conspiracies. they need to accept the consequences. republicans really should heed the lessons learned by the last gop presidential nominee. you see, mitt romney frequently relied on these nonevidence conspiracies, like the time jeep announced it would expand production in china due to great sales. a right wing newport completely
butchered the story, saying that the jeep was considering giving up the united states and shifting production to china. enter mitt romney. >> i saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, jeep, now owned by the italians is thinking of moving all production to china. >> there was also the lie about president barack obama never saying benghazi was an act of terrorism. >> obama knowingly lied to the american people. obama created a conspiracy theory and coordinated a campaign of deceit to distract from the truth that affects our national security. >> mitt romney listened to this kind of stuff for weeks. and because he relied on this junk, he walked into the biggest trap on the largest possible stage. >> i think it's interesting the president just said something which is on the day after the attack, he went in the rose garden and said that this was an act of terror. >> that's what i said.
>> you said in the rose garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror. >> no acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values we stand for. >> it was not a spontaneous demonstration? is that what you're saying? >> please proceed, governor. >> even after this, romney didn't learn. with polls shows barack obama leading on election day, romney was convinced by conservative media that he was going to win. he was shellshocked when he lost. republicans are headed down you know what? the romney path. they would do well to listen to hillary clinton's advice and rejoin everyone else in the evidence-based world. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, will republicans ever live in an evidence-based world? text "a" for yes. text b for no to 622639. you can go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll show you the results later on in the show.
joining me tonight is karen finney, former dnc communications director, and michael steele, msnbc contributor and former chairman of the rnc. great to have both of you with us on this friday evening. michael, you first. >> good to see you, ed. >> will the republican party listen to hillary clinton? does she have merit to what she is saying? >> well, if you put it like that, ed, the answer is probably not. but i think that the underlying argument that hillary puts out there is something that we need to pay some close attention to. you know, i think the takeaway from the hearings the past week, and just looking at this from a partisan political perspective was we didn't serve our interests very well. we never clarified the key questions that i thought needed to be asked. and hillary quite aptly in that clip there, turkey? where are you getting your facts from. from the party standpoint, i get the idea of wanting to drill
down on benghazi and all these issues, but we're scattered. we're all over the place there is no cohesion there is no current message there is no sense of where we're leading with the questions we have, which of course gives opportunity for you and others to look at this and go are you serious? i mean, here are the facts. how do you respond to the facts. and if we're responding in a direction different from the facts, you get what we have of the past few weeks. >> karen, isn't this a classic example of how something can be made up, and then they'll be called out on it later on when someone really doesn't have any political chips to lose on it. >> it is. but a little bit of history. you may remember, ed, that i worked for former secretary, i guess now we would call her clinton in the white house when she was our first lady. she back then talked about the vast right-wing conspiracy, and a lot of people didn't believe her. not so much of a conspiracy anymore. we have since found out even back then, she was very correct. watching you connect those dots was quite a joy to actually have
a venue where we could do that and push back on the misinformation that is out there. because this is a classic, classic thing that we've been seeing. >> and it's amazing how a blogger can put something out, it ends up in a hearing, it gets picked up by another senator, who goes on a media outlet, presents it as almost fact, has the commentator saying there was actually a live feed. i'm pulling my hair out. give me a break. >> remember, there was one of the questioners also asked her about why haven't the im messages that we've subpoenaed. and later she said actually, we don't allow im at the state department. >> this is a clip from chuck hagel's hearing yesterday. listen to senator james inhofe's source for his information. >> there is an article the other day in the "washington post" by jennifer rubin called "our dim witted state department." it's kind of an interesting article. >> michael, how do you get these guys to stop listening to the same wild conspiracy theories?
they just live in a different world. >> i think it is a little bit of a different world in that sense. i don't get -- i don't get the direction and the messaging that the party is putting out this right now. i really honestly don't. i think that we really need to sort of step back from this thing and really assess exactly what do we need to focus on. is benghazi of all the things that are pressing the american people right now something that as a national party we should be fixated on. hillary clinton, yes, she served as secretary of state. did an admiral job. most people would say that. yeah, there was this hiccup with benghazi. we unfortunately lost the lives of four u.s. servicemen out there, ambassador and the like. so how do we now deal with this in the context of everything else. >> you deal with it by dealing in fax. >> and i think that's the point, ed. i think that's the point. >> whatever happened to the day when the united states senator would pick up the phone and do his own information. senators do have their phone
calls taken, okay. is this true? what do you know? and we're losing that. karen, what about that? >> well, remember also, as we learned from both the hearing with secretary clinton and then the following day with senator kerry, you had one senator who was asking secretary clinton several questions about, you know, video i believe it was and other things, and admitted that he hadn't actually gone to the briefing. so part of it is don't just go off of what you read on the internet or what somebody tells you. go to the briefing. check that information for yourself. >> in that same exchange, a senator who was not at the briefing asked john kerry if he would work with him on that. well, i guess so. you didn't go to the briefing. >> it's a good start. >> ed, what i'm curious about is hillary clinton, unlike a lot of secretaries of state had a very good working relationship inside the senate on both the right side and the left side of the aisle. so to your point about the phone call, i find it surprising and would be curious to know if any of them did pick up the phone at that time, try to reach and talk
to her directly to connect their own dots as opposed to relying on third party sources. >> you guys, let's be really clear about what this was about. benghazi, they used susan rice. they were trying to use hillary clinton to go after president obama. that's what this whole thing is about. so whether or not people went to the briefs or picked up phone calls, it was pretty obvious from the travesty that were those hearings that this was really about trying to come out with some got you information. but ultimately to go after her president that. >> is it, got you information. it would seem to me that rand paul would have picked up the phone and scauld secretary clinton, i don't want to make you look like a fool and i don't want to look like a fool, but i'm going to be very clear on this. this is what i'm going to be asking. you know what? we need to get to the truth of all this. that's really what the hearings are all about. >> it's still out thereby discovered. there are still a lot of questions that i think were missed completely in these hearing. >> i'll let it sit there. great interest have you with me. remember to answer the question
at the bottom of the screen. share your thoughts on twitter and at "ed show" and on face book. we want to know what you think. there was encouraging news and the stock market going crazy. but income inequality, my friends is very real. it plagues this country. and bernie sanders will join me to talk about it and how to remedy this whole thing. stay with us. we'll be right back. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye. which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers.
big shake-up in the senate in 2014. geraldo in, scott brown out. the big panel's got it all covered for you tonight here on "the ed show." and the unbelievable story of how nasa handled the space shuttle columbia. on the tenth anniversary of the disaster, a former shuttle program manager blogged his reflections. stay with us. because what you have heard about it really is unbelievable. don't forget, you can listen to my radio show on sirius xm radio channel 127 monday through friday, noon to 3:00. share your thoughts with u on facebook and on twitter using the hash tag edshow. we're coming right back. there'.
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welcome back to "the ed show." you like numbers? i got numbers for you tonight there is big economic news today. records are being broken. but there is still a major story of income inequality underneath all of this. first, the numbers. the nation's economy added 157,000 jobs in january, and the unemployment rate, well, it ticked up to 7.9%. but the jobs numbers for november and december were revised upwards significantly. this means more than two million jobs were created last year. the best number since 2005 and better than seven out of eight
years in the bush/cheney era. . now the economy has now gained 5.5 million jobs out of the 8.74 million jobs lost in the great recession. we got a long way to go. no doubt about it. now the stock market is on a roll. it topped 14,000 today for the first time since 2007. 100,000 construction jobs were added in the last four months of 2012, and today chrysler posted its highest sales in five years. and there is another side of this story, of course. millions of people are still out of work. the economy actually shrank by a tenth of a point last quarter because of what? government cutbacks. 2/3 of americans are planning to delay the retirement according to "the wall street journal" because of the financial losses. income stagnation and layoffs over the past several years. income inequality in the united states actually, folks, has
gotten worse. and we now rank in the middle of latin american countries, which have historically had poor economies and high levels of income inequality. we got a lot of work to do. let's turn to senator bernie sander of vermont. senator, great to have you with us tonight. thanks for joining us. >> good. my pleasure. >> there is still an ugly underbelly to this economy as it stands right now. this past election was themed about and focused on the middle class. what can we do, senator, moving forward here in the short-term? your thoughts. >> well, first of all, ed, we have to do exactly what you were doing now and focus on an issue that gets very, very little attention. that is the fact that we have the most unequal distribution of wealth and income of any major country on earth, worse today in the united states than at any time since 1928 before the great depression. and from a moral perspective, moral, we have to ask ourselves whether we think it is
acceptable that the top 1% owns 35% of the wealth in america when the bottom 60% owns 2.3% of the wealth. whether it is acceptable that the top 1% earn morse income than the bottom 50%. and in the last study that we saw in 2010, 93%, 93% of all new income went to the top 1%. is that the kind of country that we feel comfortable living in? >> i don't think so. i don't think the american people believe that. and i think that's what this election was all about. i mean, when you look at it, middle class families earned more in 1996 than today. i mean, it's absolutely amazing. the middle class are still asked to share the sacrifice with the cuts to the big three. >> that's right. >> we have to grab this conversation. >> that's exactly right. and, ed, what this is also about, it's not only morality and fairness, it is about
politics. because what do you think the big money folks are doing? the big corporations who are enjoying record-breaking profits? the wealthiest people doing phenomenally well. they're not sitting on their money. they're putting huge amounts of money into the political process so they get even more tax breaks, more ability to outsource our jobs, more ability to put their money in tax havens in the cayman islands. it's not only a political issue, it's an economic issue. that is if consumers do not have the money, if the middle class and working families do not have the income to spend, how are you going to create jobs? how are you going to create jobs? >> senator, your thoughts on what policies would reduce this wide gulf of income inequality? >> let me just kick off a very few. i think what almost all economists recognize is that when real unemployment is over 14%, counting those people who have given up looking for work and are working part-time, we
need to invest significant sums of money, rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure -- roads, bridges, water systems,s that transit, et cetera. second of all, given the threat of global warming, we need to invest very heavily and create jobs in weatherization, energy efficient and sustainable unreasonable. that's one area, ed, if we are aggressive, we can create many millions of jobs rather quickly. second of all, we have got to demand that wall street stop sitting on the huge amounts of money they are and get that money out to the productive economy so small and medium-sized businesses have the capital to expand and also create new jobs. that. >> is a plan that needs to be discussed. and americans ought to get behind. senator bernie sanders, thanks for joining us tonight. i appreciate it. coming up, geraldo rivera wants to be new jersey's next senator. we have an exclusive first look
at his first campaign ad, next. and our panel will weigh in on geraldo as well as scott brown's political future. eugene brown, michael tomasky and michelle goldberg will join me. stay tuned. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. we're right back. i'm here with daphne oz, a model of healthy habits. so daphene, do you eat activia. i do it's always in my fridge. and you know activia isn't just for minor digestive issues. exactly, it's also important for my overall well being because it helps regulate my digestive system. and when you feel good on the inside, it shows on the outside!
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jersey in 2014. geraldo is considering running as a republican for senator frank lautenberg's seat. "the ed show" has obtained an exclusive copy of geraldo rivera's first campaign commercial. >> in a topsy-turvy world, with more questions than answers -- >> a massive concrete wall has been discovered. >> new jersey needs a man unafraid to suit up for battle on the greatest issues facing america. issues such as racism, satanism. >> many of the things about satanism are offensive. >> or i'm in love with a transinvest style hooker. >> i went to journalism to become a lawyer. >> geraldo rivera is that man whom. better to clean up washington, d.c. than the man who cleaned out al capone's vault. >> it seems up to now we have struck out with the vault. i'm disappointed than. >> a man who can reach across the aisle to find bipartisan solutions. >> what i want is fairness. >> fairness, bull! >> and a military genius, who
only once gave up the position of our fighting troops in a war zone. geraldo for senate in new jersey. this is not a joke. >> this is a real-life horror story that will give small children bad dreams. >> paid for by please, oh, please, oh, please, oh, please, oh please do this geraldo. >> so are you going to do it? seriously. >> i very well may. >> geraldo rivera talks senate. michelle goldberg, michael tomasky and gene robinson join us to talk statesmen in the news. president obama puts the justice department on the hook for beer prices. new allegations arise about the tragedy of nasa's columbia crew. how much did mission control know? i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligations. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep.
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with some people in the republican party in new jersey. i am truly contemplating running for senate against frank lautenberg or cory booker. >> well, come on, geraldo. give us the audiotape of the conversation that was geraldo rivera, considering a run for a senate seat currently held by democrat frank lautenberg in the state of new jersey. let's go to our big panel tonight. msnbc political analyst eugene robinson of the "washington post." michelle goldberg and michael tomasky, both of "newsweek" and the daily beast. michael wrote this week's cover story on "newsweek." great to have all of you with us tonight. well, eugene, you first. is this good news for new jersey democrats, or is it great news for new jersey democrats? >> it's great news for journalists. and so i want to know where i can write a check to the please oh please oh please oh please geraldo do this pac. because nothing but stories there. it's hard to imagine that new jersey republicans would
actually nominate him. but if they did, sure. it's great news for new jersey democrats because i think they basically get a senate seat. >> chris christie's top strategist tells the new jersey star ledger he hasn't called me. will we see christie giving his blessings to geraldo, a candidacy by geraldo, or is that just fat chance, michelle goldberg? what do you think? >> i would be surprised because chris christie, for all my disagreements with him, does seem to love the state of new jersey. but i'm not sure how many chris christie's endorsement matters compared to fox news' endorsement. should he run, it will be just another step in the consolidation of fox news and the republican party. >> michael, you know, name recognition. he could probably raise a little bit of money. he can handle the media. he is an advocate for people in a sense. journalistic credentials a little shaky at times. would he be a potential winner, do you think? >> you know, ed, i think geraldo
is a smart guy. i do his radio show sometimes, and, you know, i've talked with him. he knows issues. he knows policy. he is pretty moderate. he is pro-choice, which a lot of people may not know yet. now, that may kill him in a primary, even in new jersey. republicans around the country, republican primary electorates are pretty conservative. so that issue alone may do him in. i also remember being on his radio show once when we he did this odd endorsement i think he said i will vote for romney, but i personally support obama, or something odd like that. people will have to look that up, and they will. and of course, another thing with people who have never run for office, they're going to be subjected to a new level of scrutiny. >> yeah. >> his personal finances, his personal -- you know, his personal life and so on and so forth. so all that is going to have to hold. and then the final question, can he campaign? >> well, that depends on how hard he wants to work. but he is going the al franken route. he's got the radio show all
squared away early on. meanwhile, in other senate news, polling earlier this week had former senator scott brown of massachusetts actually leading democratic congressman ed markey in a hypothetical matchup to fill john kerry's senate seat. but earlier today, brown announced that he won't be entering the special election race, paving a clear path to victory for the democrats. he said something pretty interesting. "i was not at all certain that a third senate campaign in less than four years and the prospect of returning to a congress even more partisan than the one i left was really the best way for me to continue in public service at this time." eugene robinson, isn't that somewhat of a surrender, that, you know, this is just a mess. why should i even deal with it? >> well, i think a lot of people kind of feel that way about congress these days and certainly that way about the senate, which is even more sort of paralyzed than it usually is. but scott brown, we do have to
keep in mind that he lost his last campaign for senate, and he might have been making a calculation there. polls were showing him ahead. but there is no guarantees, and it would be his third campaign. so why go through it again? >> michelle, this leaves the republican party in massachusetts kind of scrambling right now, doesn't it? >> that's what is so interesting, i think, is that they have essentially no one. i mean, it's amazing to have kind of a major political party with a bench with basically nobody sitting on it. i mean, one name that i've seen floated is william weld, who -- i mean, it would be fascinating to have somebody who was a republican who was an outspokenly pro-choice politician. but i can't imagine him -- i can't imagine him winning. and it's hard to imagine him as part of the kind of contemporary senate republican caucus. this is just further evidence of the complete collapse of old school northeastern republicanism. >> along those lines, michael, you know, there is one guy that still has got a lot of time on
his hand. his name is mitt romney. >> yes, there. there is also a guy named tag romney. maybe it's time to pass the torch to the next generation. look, in addition to all the reasons already put forward or all the explanations already put forward, i think this is a tea party setback. brown as a senator, as voting senator didn't always vote with the tea party by any stretch of the imagination. but he was a tea party darling in a big way in 2010. >> yeah, he was. >> in a big way. and so now he's gone. and it's just another setback for that wing of the republican party and that movement. and as everyone says, it's clearly going to be a democratic seat. >> we all know this man was larger than life. a man with keen political instincts above all. he was new yorker, former new york city mayor ed koch died early this morning of congestive heart failure. he was 88 years old. after serving in congress, mayor koch was elected to three times
in city hall from 1978 to 1989. koch never married and had no children, but as his "new york times" obituary put it, he was survived by new york itself. koch liked to ask people, you know, how am i doing? eugene robinson, what's his legacy? >> well, as a practical matter, he improved the city's finances tremendously. but really what he did was personify the city, in my view, at a time when it could use that sort of larger than life figure. and he kind of -- his ebullience and determination and drive i think gave a boost in and of themselves to a city that was in pretty bad shape. >> michelle, this was a man who was not afraid to infuriate liberals. >> yeah. i think he seemed to delight in it.
in some ways he was kind of the prototypical neo conservative, somebody who started on the left, who started out very liberal, and then made his political career being tough on crime, being kind of insensitive to minorities, and then later on being sometimes crazily islamphobic and really vicious to anybody who disagreed with the likud line on israel. circumstances new york a better place, michael tomasky because ed koch was the mayor and served for so long? >> generally speaking, yes. i'll add this point. i knew ed, and i covered ed. i lived in new york in those days. and this is one part of his legacy that doesn't get mentioned as much, and it's a good part. he undertook in the 1980s a $5.2 billion housing program for the city. and people who ride say the number 6 train up through the bronx, up westchester avenue, and you look out and you see all that housing, still pretty new, from the 1980s, that was catch's
housing program, and a whole lot else besides. so that was one very good thing he did. you know, he was a combustible guy, and a lot of people really didn't like him. but on balance he did more good for the city for sure. >> in our final topic tonight, have any of you figured out just how close john mccain and chuck hagel actually are? i mean, are they really good buddies, eugene robinson? >> it's a bromance, a bromance for the ages. >> okay, is that what that is? i tell you what? who needs enemies with friends like that? i think, michael tomasky, i think that chuck hagel was just taken by it all. >> yeah, well, he was something. you know, i hope he is better prepared for the issues he is going to face as secretary of defense than he was for those questions. >> i think stunned would be the right word. eugene robinson, michelle goldburg, michael tomasky, thanks for being with us tonight. thanks for joining us on "the ed show." coming up, be sure to enjoy your beer this super bowl sunday, because next year it could cost a little bit more. actually, a whole lot more.
but not if president obama and the justice department have anything to do with it. stay tuned. we're right back. [ dog barking ] ♪ [ female announcer ] life is full of little tests, but your basic paper towel can handle them. especially if that towel is bounty basic. the towel that's durable, and scrubbable. in this lab demo, bounty basic is stronger than the leading bargain brand. everyday life? bring it with bounty basic. the strong but affordable picker-upper... now costs even less. email marketing from constant contact reaches people in a place they're checking every day -- their inbox. and it gives you the tools to create custom emails that drive business. it's just one of the ways constant contact can help you grow your small business. sign up for your free trial today at constantcontact.com/try.
hillary clinton officially stepped down today as secretary of state. but many of you on our facebook and twitter believe she'll be back. on facebook, stephanie writes hillary, you were and are a true inspiration to all. look forward to voting for you as president in 2016. steve brown writes such grace, ease and dignity, and hillary, see you in 2016. and hillary clinton would be a great follow-up to barack obama as president 2016. just think, bill clinton as first gentleman. go to our facebook page right now and get in on the conversation. and don't forget to like "the ed show" when you're there, folks. we'd appreciate that. still to come, a former nasa employee's blog about the space shuttle columbia disaster has everyone talking. we'll get to the bottom of this unbelievable story ahead. stay tuned.
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welcome back to "the ed sho show". president obama is the kind of guy you probably want to have a beer with. at least i think that. in his first term, president obama held beer summit, shared a beer with a medal of honor winner, knocked back a couple of cool ones with kinlts on the campaign trail. heck, the obama white house began brewing its own beer, so popular that a freedom of information act was submitted just to get the recipe. i'm guessing that on sunday the president will join americans as they consume millions of cases of beer on, of course, the big day for the big game. but in the meantime, president obama is looking out for you to make sure that next year you don't have to pay more for that six-pack. you see, on thursday the justice department filed a civil antitrust lawsuit to block a merger between two beer industry
giants. the lawsuit challenges anheuser-busch inbev's attempt to buy 50% of mexico's grupo modelo that it doesn't already own. abi is the ruler of the u.s. beer market, no doubt. modelo is ranked third. the justice department believes that the merger could create a beer monopoly. if a abi buys their direct competitor, it could easily change market forces and raise the prices of beer everywhere. it's estimated that if the deal goes through, a six-pack could end up costing 25 to 50 cents more. sure, now that doesn't sound like a whole heck of a lot. but when you start adding it up, it could cost beer drinkers in this country billions of dollars. now, they haven't gone after wall street, but when you crack open that cool one on super bowl sunday, know that the president of the united states and the justice department, well, i tell you what, they are looking out
for you for more beers. and as for the game, i'm just not high on this one, the 49ers and the ravens. i've been mad at baltimore ever since the colts left. i grew up thinking johnny unitas was the greatest of all time. when the 49ers bill walsh and montana and all that crowd, i just thought they won too much. they were awful good, though. i just can't warm up to san francisco this year because of the way they trashed their first quarterback, even though the guy they got in there right now is really entertaining and good. and then this two brothers thing into the super bowl. i'm still mad the vikings aren't there. must be a conspiracy there or something. anyway, tonight in the survey, i asked you will republicans ever live in an evidence-based world. 2% of you say yes. 98% of you say no. coming up, stunning new details about the space shuttle "columbia" disaster. the nasa manager in charge admits what really went wrong ten years ago.
find out what he regrets most, when we come back. stay with us. [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. and the next great idea could be yours.
[ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay -- you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? and in tonight's big finish, there is a story making the rounds on some news sites that shocked my staff and got all of us talking today. the headlines say nasa knew the space shuttle "columbia" was doomed, but decided not to tell the astronauts. the story is loosely based on a blog post base by a former nasa flight manager.
the story is sensational, but it's not really true. the stunning claim comes on the tenth anniversary of the "columbia" disaster. nasa held this remembrance service in california for all astronauts killed over the years. the fate of the "columbia" crewmembers was sealed january 16th, 2003. >> three, two, one. we have booster ignition and liftoff of space shuttle "columbia." >> from the ground, this looked like a perfect launch. but close-up video showed a chunk of debris slamming into the shuttle's left wing. no one was sure how bad the damage was, and they believed they couldn't do anything about it. mission control discussed hypotheticals. former flight director wayne hale quoted a colleague saying i think the crew would rather not know. don't you think it would be better or the them to have a happy, successful flight and die unexpectedly during reentry than to stay on orbit, knowing that there was nothing to be done
until the air ran out? but hale told us today no one believed the mission would end like this. the shuttle disintegrated 16 days after it launched, killing all seven members and raining debris over texas. president george w. bush ended the shuttle program two years later. hale told me, our staff today i should say, that there was no concern for reentry. the crew was given a summary of the issue with the conclusion of no concern. hale says nasa told crew everything, but everyone agreed there was nothing they could do about the damage. hale says that's the tragic lesson of the "columbia" disaster. quote, we will never again say that there is nothing we can do. i'm joined by nbc news space analyst james oberg. mr. oberg, great to have you with us here tonight on "the ed show." >> good evening, ed. >> good evening to you, sir. >> i know wayne, because wayne
and i trained together on the first shuttle flights 32 years ago. so when he talks, we listen. and he made some comments that as you explained did get taken in the wrong direction. but it didn't get to the actually most serious question, which is why didn't they know the shuttle was damaged? did they deliberately or unconsciously not look very hard? and why were they caught by surprise? >> would nasa ever keep vital information from a crew during a mission? >> everyone i've talked to and my own experience in mission control is no, because if you start doing that, you start developing a distrust between the ground and people in space, and that communications barrier leads -- will lead to all sorts of trouble. all this conversation was in the hall after they had already decided there was no danger. but the decision was wrong, as hale points out. and what wayne was objecting to, what wayne was regretting was
not slapping this guy down right away saying that was crazy. he didn't do it. it turned out he didn't have to because they never would have told. they never felt it was lost. but they missed the chance to find the mistake. they missed the chance to at least go down swinging, go down fighting. trying to fix the hole, trying to get a rescue ship up, trying to get international aid to resupply the shuttle. all those things would have been at least tried. whether they worked or not, we still don't know. but dying out of nowhere, totally out of left field, blindsided by reality, that's a way no one really wants to go. >> mr. oberg, how much have we learned from this tragedy in your opinion? >> ed, what we have learned, unfortunately, what philosopher hagel said is all we learn from history is we don't learn from history. the biggest tragedy of this disaster and some of the earlier ones was it taught nasa nothing that they hadn't already learned during apollo and other projects
and had forgotten, or had overlooked or had gotten off target. so a lot of the safety issues -- space flight is unforgiving. it's inherently dangerous if you're careless. if you get careless, it will kill you. more so than most other activities on earth, especially maybe underwater caving. but it's dangerous. and if you get slipshod, even if a few people get slipshod, these catastrophes will happen. but they're not accidents. they're consequences. that to me is what is the greatest thing it taught us is we shouldn't have had to kill seven more people to learn what we already knew and had forgotten. >> could the "columbia" crew have been saved just somehow? and in your mind and heart and professional opinion, was every available option exhausted? like and when i say saved, i mean like apollo 13. >> ed, that's what people were hoping for. after the disaster, my colleagues, and i had left mission control at that point.
i had already gone off into private consulting on flight safety because i was tired of the way nasa was decaying. but people who were still there told me they wished they had the warning. if they had ten days warning, early in the flight, had seen the hole in the wing. that would have mobile ayed all their energies and the whole country's and the world's energies. they would have tried to find ways to manage gyver the wing and find something on board to stick in the whole. they had to find ways to get the other ship that was being canted down into space sooner. and if they didn't have enough air on board, they would have found ways to get other rockets from other countries. and there were some available, to throw fly canisters up into space where the shuttle could have chased them down and grabbed them before the shuttle's own power ran out. those things might have happened. in hindsight, the accident investigation board looked at them and couldn't really figure out any way that was surely going to work. but they would have tried. >> yeah. >>